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#177110 - 09/24/12 07:35 AM 2013 feedback
Vincent C Offline
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Loc: Norrköping, Sweden
Well guys? Anyone tried out 2013 in depth yet, what are your thoughts so far?
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#177117 - 09/24/12 08:13 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Bryan G. Offline
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So far so good. There have been a few changes that will alter my present workflow so time will tell if those features have been improved or if its me that needs to get used to them.
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#177127 - 09/24/12 10:20 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
MJasonM Offline
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I am experiencing approx 3 second delay when changing sheet, editing viewports, extrudes, groups, etc.... very frustrating. I am going back to 2012 till this issues is resolved. I hope it is fixed soon.
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#177129 - 09/24/12 11:03 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: MJasonM]
Kevin McAllister Offline
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Originally Posted By: MJasonM
I am experiencing approx 3 second delay when changing sheet, editing viewports, extrudes, groups, etc.... very frustrating. I am going back to 2012 till this issues is resolved. I hope it is fixed soon.


Do you have the hierarchical display option for your classes turned on? Someone in another thread suggested turning that off speeds things up. Its probably worth a try.

I have had some slowdowns as well. One was related to using the auto hybrid object, which I had placed in a symbol so there were multiple versions of it on the drawing. Things slowed down dramatically so I ditched it for a traditional hybrid symbol.

Kevin
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#177133 - 09/24/12 11:37 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
MJasonM Offline
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Registered: 02/27/12
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thank you for the suggestion, but this did not solve the issue.

I grabbed a stopwatch to get a more accurate time on the delay.

Example #1 - In the edit viewport box, from hitting "OK" to being in a 3D wireframe viewport 10 sec

Example #2 - In the edit viewport box, from hitting "OK" to being in a 2D plan view 9 sec

Example #3 - Changing between sheet views 9 sec

Example #4 - double clicking group to edit 5 sec

These are significant delays. Any other suggestions????


Edited by MJasonM (09/24/12 12:24 PM)
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#177140 - 09/24/12 04:26 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Kimcz Offline
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I am also experiencing ridiculous delays when editing groups, changing layers, viewports etc. 17 to 22 secs each time, which if editing groups is of course times 2- ungroup and group again.
This is completely unworkable, so I am also ditching Vectordoesn'twork 2013 until the matter is sorted out.
Surely the beta testers must have come across this problem.
Nemetschek state than navigation is quicker. I think it is marginally quicker , but only if you don't have to change layers or edit groups or Viewports.
Also, I found that the detail option, although very welcome, I have wanted this feature since Minicad6, is very slow and sticky.
I have 4MB GB of RAM, but as XP is only 32 bit, this means that only about 3.2MB is available.
Are Nemetschek trying to tell us that we have to upgrade to 64bit systems? This means all other programmes on your computer have to be upgraded. The cost!!
I am going back to 2012, which also had many initial slownesses.
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#177145 - 09/24/12 04:45 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Kimcz]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kimcz

Are Nemetschek trying to tell us that we have to upgrade to 64bit systems? This means all other programmes on your computer have to be upgraded. The cost!!
I am going back to 2012, which also had many initial slownesses.


32bit programs will work in a 64bit os.
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#177146 - 09/24/12 04:55 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Try turning off the 'feature' called 'Improved Navigation Graphics'. It's much faster here.
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#177147 - 09/24/12 04:57 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Feedback: Not worthy off the Evolve subtitle. Almost nothing off the features is usefull in architecture, and those that are are half-baked. I'm really dissapointed, though I still love VW.
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#177150 - 09/24/12 05:25 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Kimcz Offline
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Thanks DWorks,
I have switched off "Enhanced Navigation Graphics". I had already switched off the hierarchical display option.
No improvement at all. Having gone back to VW2012 on the same file all the delay has evaporated.
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#177152 - 09/24/12 05:42 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
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In the pase, we found that projects being upgraded from previous versions did not run as smoothly as projects started in the new version. It could be the translation of certain legacy objects are causing the lagging.

I have not been using it in depth but in my playing around I have found it quite a bit faster than 2012.
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#177153 - 09/24/12 05:44 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
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This feels like a minor release to me. The one big development for me and the firm I work for is the background rendering. Being able to continue to use VWs while rendering a viewport will be a huge time saver. Beyond that, there is not a whole lot to be all that excited about.

Some of the other threads indicated that 2014 is going to be a more substantial upgrade. Maybe they are completing the migration away from Quicktime and to a 64bit program?
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#177167 - 09/24/12 09:36 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
mike m oz Offline

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Collectively though Tom there is quite a lot in Vw 2013:
- the 3D improvements make working in 3D much easier and working in a perspective projection is now practical.
- the Auto Hybrid Object is pretty neat if you create a lot of your own 3D content.
- the Door and Window improvements are very good.
- being able to select multiple PIO objects and edit them simultaneously is a good time saver.
- the Roof tool is more robust and much quicker.
- Surface Array expands the possibilities of what you can do organically in Architect.
- the Space tool is improved.
- Custom Line Types expands what you can represent.
- being able to read and write DWF files is very handy.
- the DWG export is better and being able to produce 2D DWG files from any Vw 3D view is pretty neat.
- Rhino import and export expands the exchange possibilities.

Also in every release there are always a raft of small changes and improvements that don't get much publicity. Vectorworks 2013 is no different and the more you use it the more you will find.

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#177171 - 09/25/12 03:15 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Vincent C Offline
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Stability and compatibility?
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#177176 - 09/25/12 04:48 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Tom Klaber]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tom Klaber
In the pase, we found that projects being upgraded from previous versions did not run as smoothly as projects started in the new version. It could be the translation of certain legacy objects are causing the lagging.


Then what to do with our big libraries? Starting over?
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#177178 - 09/25/12 05:12 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
mike m oz Offline

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Its been fine in the testing I've done.

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#177189 - 09/25/12 09:22 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Dieter @ DWorks]
Tom Klaber Offline
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Originally Posted By: DWorks
Originally Posted By: Tom Klaber
In the pase, we found that projects being upgraded from previous versions did not run as smoothly as projects started in the new version. It could be the translation of certain legacy objects are causing the lagging.


Then what to do with our big libraries? Starting over?


We do not maintain a central library of custom objects. We steal things from project to project, and in those cases we will jump into an old file and bring that object up.

For all I know, that does not actually cause problems, and the performance issues were not from upgrading but simply from the complexity of the files. But my gut tells me that upgrading a series of interconnected complex files will unavoidably leads to some translation bug somewhere.
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#177190 - 09/25/12 09:31 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Vincent C Offline
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The general rule is still to migrate as little as possible (which of course is fairly unacceptable in a program with a yearly upgrade cycle......).
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#177194 - 09/25/12 09:44 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: mike m oz]
Tom Klaber Offline
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Originally Posted By: mike m oz
Collectively though Tom there is quite a lot in Vw 2013:
- the 3D improvements make working in 3D much easier and working in a perspective projection is now practical.
- the Auto Hybrid Object is pretty neat if you create a lot of your own 3D content.
- the Door and Window improvements are very good.
- being able to select multiple PIO objects and edit them simultaneously is a good time saver.
- the Roof tool is more robust and much quicker.
- Surface Array expands the possibilities of what you can do organically in Architect.
- the Space tool is improved.
- Custom Line Types expands what you can represent.
- being able to read and write DWF files is very handy.
- the DWG export is better and being able to produce 2D DWG files from any Vw 3D view is pretty neat.
- Rhino import and export expands the exchange possibilities.

Also in every release there are always a raft of small changes and improvements that don't get much publicity. Vectorworks 2013 is no different and the more you use it the more you will find.


You are right, there are a few new tools - some of which will make work much faster, better, but this is not what I would call a major or bench mark release. Small tweaks like adding tilt turn to the window tool are nice, but should not be included in New Features of the program.

For me the biggest thing, and it is not on your list is the background rendering. That is the type of significant change that is going to seriously effect workflow.

If hidden line being faster or the space tool being improved is being called a new feature of the release, you know you are in an off year.


2014 Give Me:
64Bits
Overhauled Usable Stair Tool
Live Sections
Revit Object Import
Door and Window Type and Variations
2D Hatches on 3D Objects
Overhauled Worksheets
Electrical Tools
Maxwell Plugin
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#177218 - 09/25/12 12:28 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
ray isaacs Offline
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i agree with tom. the new features are nice. but, if functionality is compromised by structural limitations in the software, which seems to still be the case, then new features don't mean very much.

cheers,

ray
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#177235 - 09/25/12 04:18 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Kimcz]
Hugues Offline
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Columbia , MD
Hello Kimcz,
We haven't experienced the same delays here.
Please submit a bug report and attach the file(s) so we can investigate.

http://www.vectorworks.net/support/bugsubmit.php

Thanks
Hugues

htsafak@vectorworks.net

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#177254 - 09/25/12 10:17 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
MJasonM Offline
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Registered: 02/27/12
Posts: 5
Loc: South Carolina
Submitting the bug was the first thing i did...

I have been using VW since MiniCad 4.5... I love VW, but the first realease of each version is always buggy. For this reason I stayed with Ver 2008 till I went to 2012.

Anyways, I look forward to the issue getting worked out, but for now, I am sticking with 2012
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#177310 - 09/26/12 03:13 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
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My colleague, who now has logged more hours than me in VW13, says he is seeing noticeably faster rendering times.
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#177443 - 09/28/12 04:00 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Kimcz Offline
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"Please submit a bug report and attach the file(s) so we can investigate."
How do I pass along a file of 92 MB The file works acceptably in VW2012.
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#177445 - 09/28/12 04:21 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
ray isaacs Offline
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Registered: 04/27/12
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Loc: usa, switzerland
kimcz,

i use dropbox to send large files to vw tech support. seems to work well.

ray
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#177452 - 09/28/12 06:49 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Buzz Lightyear Offline
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http://m.facebook.com/VectorworksBenelux.NL?id=194295643937615&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.nl%2Fsearch&_rdr

The Benelux version of vectorworks looks to have a great new window tool, i want this :-(
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#177459 - 09/28/12 09:39 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
compusam Offline
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Clip Cube is a great idea and it works well in wireframe, however, in Open GL it bogs down. I am currently waiting for an image refresh to complete (going on an hour now) so this is not workable. I have watched the demos which seems very responsive, but in real practice with a complex model refresh is too slow. The problem seems to be trying to render all of the intermediate steps between the beginning clipping plane and a subsequent clipping plane (maybe hundreds of redraws in the animation). I will try some differing settings for Open GL to see if I can find a more optimum experience.
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#177462 - 09/29/12 04:23 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Buzz Lightyear]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Originally Posted By: Buzz Lightyear
http://m.facebook.com/VectorworksBenelux.NL?id=194295643937615&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.nl%2Fsearch&_rdr

The Benelux version of vectorworks looks to have a great new window tool, i want this :-(


Lets hope the many bugs that where in it for years are gone too.
Looking at the picture, it sure looks good, now hoping for classable parts unlike the interior door tool, and for user flexibility and speed in editing, because these points tend to be a problem in our BE-NL version specific tools.

If it's really good, I'm finally able to ditch my own window tool, (that did corner windows since VW12.5), to have more time on other projects.
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#177470 - 09/30/12 07:24 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Mattheng Offline
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Physical sky looked good but when I set one up and turn it on I just get inky blackness if it's on a file I had originally set up in 2012.

Does work in a new 2013 file but seems very slow.

Shame, the pictures looked so good in the Brochure

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#177472 - 09/30/12 09:28 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tamsin Slatter Offline
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Matt

To get it to work in the old file, you probably need to edit your Renderworks Style to make sure it uses the Physical Sky background instead of the one that used to work with the Renderworks Exterior Final style. Try also editing something on your Heliodon to refresh it - try typing something like Sunset in the Time field - it can work out the time for sunset for the given date.
And I am sure you have already thought of this... but do you have a Heliodon in the 2012 file. It's the Physical Sky and Heliodon combination that performs the magic. Let me know if you still have problems. I'll be happy to help.

It really does look good and we have it working on old files just fine. It makes all the difference with exterior renders. Particularly with some of the lovely new water textures.
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#177478 - 09/30/12 04:20 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Tamsin Slatter]
Mattheng Offline
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Tamsin,

As usual, thanks for the advice.

Worked perfectly.

Cheers,

Matt

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#177479 - 09/30/12 04:44 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tamsin Slatter Offline
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Lovely! Can we see?
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#177492 - 10/01/12 04:51 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Vincent C Offline
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Are wall joins, the slab tool, space tool and the roof tool more intuitive? Anyone been using these more extensively? I got the distinct impression they were, however I've only just fiddled a little....
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#177525 - 10/01/12 04:13 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
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It is a two edged sword. I find the walls to be more annoying. So rarely when I move a single wall do I want ALL walls associated with it to move too. I think this feature is an example of more being less. On occasion, in SD, I would want to freely play around with a layout and not have to rejoin all walls, but when I am fine tuning a wall I do not want it pushing and pulling everything in site.
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#177578 - 10/02/12 08:45 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Tom Klaber]
Mattheng Offline
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Registered: 02/20/11
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Loc: Earth
Tamsin,

Seeing as it's you. A quick movie. Solar Animation

One question, the horizon looks like someone has painted a thick line along it if I compare to the normal HDRI background.

Is this normal?

Matt.

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#177581 - 10/02/12 09:50 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tamsin Slatter Offline
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Loc: Berkshire, UK
Lovely!
The line is the lovely cloud cover on the horizon. You could try changing the rotation of the background to see if you get a different view. Alternatively, why not edit the background and make it totally cloudy?! After all, you are in the UK, so it will make your clients feel totally at home and not give them any false illusions about the space!

(Before anyone starts shouting at me - I'm having a laugh...)
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Author of "Residential Garden Design with Vectorworks Landmark" and Getting Started with Vectorworks Landmark
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#177586 - 10/02/12 11:23 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Mark DSS Offline
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Registered: 04/23/12
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Loc: Berkshire, England
Re the walls connecting, the selection tool has a mode for turning this on and off letting you do as you wish (see attached)

Hope that helps,


Attachments
wall connect.png (125 downloads)

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#177588 - 10/02/12 11:55 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Kimcz]
Hugues Offline
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Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Columbia , MD
Originally Posted By: Kimcz
"Please submit a bug report and attach the file(s) so we can investigate."
How do I pass along a file of 92 MB The file works acceptably in VW2012.


If the file is too large, compress it and feel free to use dropbox or www.yousendit.com

Thanks,

Hugues
htsafak@vectorworks.net

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#177602 - 10/02/12 01:17 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Hugues]
Dieter @ DWorks Offline
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Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 2587
Loc: Belgium - Gent
Originally Posted By: Hugues
Originally Posted By: Kimcz
"Please submit a bug report and attach the file(s) so we can investigate."
How do I pass along a file of 92 MB The file works acceptably in VW2012.


If the file is too large, compress it and feel free to use dropbox or www.yousendit.com

Thanks,

Hugues
htsafak@vectorworks.net



Or use www.wetransfer.com for files up to 2GB!
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#177603 - 10/02/12 01:21 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Mattheng Offline
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Registered: 02/20/11
Posts: 104
Loc: Earth
Tamsin,

That "cloud cover" does not exist with the standard HDRI background.

see HERE

Any ideas why this is?

Happy to try rotating the sky but not sure how to do it?

And I'm not going to argue with you about the weather. I have used everything from overcast skies to even putting snow on some visuals (2010 had a weird little feature that let you do it).

Didn't go down terribly well I have to say...

Matt


Edited by Mattheng (10/02/12 01:49 PM)

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#177606 - 10/02/12 01:52 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Tom Klaber]
Bob-H Offline
500 Club

Registered: 01/10/07
Posts: 540
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Tom Klaber
It is a two edged sword. I find the walls to be more annoying. So rarely when I move a single wall do I want ALL walls associated with it to move too. I think this feature is an example of more being less. On occasion, in SD, I would want to freely play around with a layout and not have to rejoin all walls, but when I am fine tuning a wall I do not want it pushing and pulling everything in site.


Have you gone into the Vw Preferences to turn off Auto-Join?
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#177609 - 10/02/12 02:49 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
CipesDesign Online   content


Vectorworks Addict

Registered: 11/07/00
Posts: 4495
Loc: Ashland, Or USA
Also, there is a pref "connected walls mode" (in the wall tool mode bar) which when disabled allows one wall to move all by itself... However, doing so will un-join the wall(s)...
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#177656 - 10/03/12 10:48 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
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Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 209
Loc: New York, New York
I am crashing CONSTANTLY. Anytime I am rendering and try to do anything else, it crashes. Not acceptable.
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#177659 - 10/03/12 10:54 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
CipesDesign Online   content


Vectorworks Addict

Registered: 11/07/00
Posts: 4495
Loc: Ashland, Or USA
Not seeing crashing here Tom. Have you tried restarting machine(s)? What Mac OS are you running (your signature just says OSX)?
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#177684 - 10/03/12 02:27 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 209
Loc: New York, New York
Sorry, not a native Mac guy - I am running 10.6.8
I restarted. Issues are being experienced by others in the office. It is a 3D model that was converted from VW2012 to VW2013. I have moved the file back to 2012 and it has been OK. I have not crashed since I have been simply drafting.
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#177695 - 10/03/12 08:18 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Tom Klaber]
Kizza Offline
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 724
Loc: Sydney Australia
Hi Tom, you've probably already considered this but have you thought of shooting the file over to Nem for them to test?
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#177725 - 10/04/12 10:21 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Tom Klaber Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 209
Loc: New York, New York
I have. They have been good to me in the past. Because others in the office are having problems with other files, I thought it was a broader problem, but my crash rate is even higher than theirs.

When I have a second I will see. I suspect it has something to do with the conversions from 2012 to 2013.
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OSX - 3.4 i7 - 16GB RAM

VW2014
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#178595 - 10/22/12 07:40 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Vincent C Offline
Vectorworks Addict

Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 2738
Loc: Norrköping, Sweden
How are these v2012 issues doing in v2013 so far (in 2013 native files only):

1. Autosave?
2. Random crashes?


Edited by Vincent C (10/22/12 07:40 AM)
_________________________
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VW 11.5 -> VW 2014 Designer SP3 (Build 217857) VSS, RW, CameraMatch
17" Macbook Pro, OS X 10.9 (Parallels Desktop + Windows 7)
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#178613 - 10/22/12 02:36 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
Christiaan Offline
Vectorworks Veteran

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 6027
Loc: London
Think the Autosave thing is fixed but I get different crashes now and they don't save a temporary file like the did in v2012 but they do crash quicker.
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Vextraworks Architect 2014 (0.0) + Renderworks + Artlantis 4.1
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#178726 - 10/24/12 08:34 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
MisterH Offline
Greenhorn

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 11
Ditto but my delay is 8 - 30 seconds.

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#178729 - 10/24/12 08:41 AM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: Vincent C]
MisterH Offline
Greenhorn

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 11
This is similar to the response I got initially from the VW tech guys when I presented our 8 - 30 second delay upon exiting various editing modes. To test this theory, I made a brand spanking new 2013 file from scratch and continued to experience the delay problems. VW now says they are aware of this problem and are working on it.

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#178897 - 10/26/12 01:16 PM Re: 2013 feedback [Re: compusam]
Tom G. Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 331
Loc: Seattle
Clip Cube works really fast for me in Open GL. I have a year old MacBook Pro, 2.2 GHz i7, 4 GB memory.

With Open GL set to default, the sectioning was like a hot knife through butter. When I loaded up the options, it slowed slightly but I was not impeded in my viewing. My highest settings attempted:

Detail: High
Anti-Aliasing: On
Use Textures: On
Shadows: On
Quality: High
Use Planar Attributes: On

My model is a three story residence with garage, atop a land mass.
102 MB file size.

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